<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On May 12, 2017, at 2:10 PM, Simon Fraser <<a href="mailto:simon.fraser@apple.com" class="">simon.fraser@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><br class="Apple-interchange-newline">On May 12, 2017, at 12:04 PM, Alexey Proskuryakov <<a href="mailto:ap@webkit.org" class="">ap@webkit.org</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;"><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">12 мая 2017 г., в 11:52, Ben Kelly <<a href="mailto:ben@wanderview.com" class="">ben@wanderview.com</a>> написал(а):</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="">On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Rick Byers<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:rbyers@chromium.org" target="_blank" class="">rbyers@chromium.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><span class="">On Fri, May 12, 2017 at 2:06 PM, Alexey Proskuryakov<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:ap@webkit.org" target="_blank" class="">ap@webkit.org</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:</span><br class=""><span class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;"><div class="">Since imported WPT tests are very flaky, and are not necessarily written to defend against important regressions, investigating issues with them is relatively lower priority than investigating issues observed with WebKit tests. So I would recommend not mixing tests for WebKit regressions with WPT tests - if your test eventually ends up in LayoutTests/imported, it will become a lot less effective.</div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div></span><div class="">FWIW this is absolutely NOT how we're treating this in chromium. If this is how things end up in practice then we will have failed massively in this effort.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We figure if we want the web to behave consistently, we really have no choice but to treat web-platform-tests as first class with all the discipline we give to our own tests. As such we are actively<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://codereview.chromium.org/2877673004" target="_blank" class="">moving</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>many of our LayoutTests to web-platform-tests and depending entirely on the regression prevention they provide us from there. Obviously there will be hiccups, but because our product quality will depend on web-platform-tests being an effective and non-flaky testsuite (and because we're starting to require most new features have web-platform-tests before they ship), I'm confident that we've got the incentives in place to lead to constant ratcheting up the engineering discipline and quality of the test suite.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">FWIW, mozilla also treats WPT as first class tests. We're not actively moving old tests to WPT like google, but all new tests (at least in DOM) are being written in WPT. Of course, we do have exceptions for some tests that require gecko-specific features (forcing GC, etc).</div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">We don't have a concept of "first class", but I hope that when choosing between looking into a simple test that was added for a known important bug, and looking into an imported test whose importance is unclear, any WebKit engineer will pick the former. And since no one can fix all the things, such prioritization makes imported tests less effective.</div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">I just ran into a classic example of how a WPT incurred more overhead. I made a code change that broke LayoutTests/imported/w3c/web-platform-tests/cssom-view/elementFromPoint.html. I tried loading it in Safari and it doesn't run the test code because it can't find /resources/testharness.js when loaded from a local file.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">So then I have to figure out how to fire up the WPT server (run-webkit-httpd), then figure out which host to use (localhost or 128.0.0.1?) and which port, and finally to figure out the right path to the test.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>It sound like the pain point is just getting the http:// served test open in the browser. This workflow can and should be automated.</div><div>Maybe it could be an option passed to run-safari that does all the setup?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>One thing I have considered authoring at some point is a catchall driver script for launching tests in a browser, attaching lldb to a layout test or API test, etc. I do all these things manually right now and it makes investigating test failures a drag. It would easiest to start a new script for these debug/triaging workflows than to than to try and tack it all onto ./Tools/Scripts/run-safari.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">There's no reason this test should not work when loaded from file://.</div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>If it’s easy to inspect a test served over http, then I am ambivalent. Loading over file:// protocol can have strange consequences, especially when CORS, caching, and resource loading are involved.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">Simon</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><br class=""></div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">webkit-dev mailing list</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><a href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>