<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">To be clear, I think PAL is a great move. Details like the namespace, placement of the code, and how includes look are all things that can be changed after the fact.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">That said, I think we need to ultimately consider our porting layer to be the combination of PAL and WTF, so it is good for the two to be consistent. I hope revisions along these lines can be considered in due course.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class="">Maciej</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 11, 2017, at 3:30 PM, Olmstead, Don <<a href="mailto:Don.Olmstead@sony.com" class="">Don.Olmstead@sony.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I was the one who did the WebCore::PAL namespace so I wanted to chime in on why I went that route. We at Sony are newcomers to pushing to trunk so my explanation might be entirely too idealistic but here goes.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I had thought of PAL as a library that is internal to WebCore that provides a clear porting layer. I would not expect anyone outside of WebCore to be linking to it. Because of that it was living inside Source/WebCore, and since it was setup that way having an internal namespace of WebCore::PAL made sense conceptually. Also in the future if PAL was successful I could see a WebKit2 equivalent.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Whatever the consensus is we’re looking forward to working on getting the PAL layer up and running. We’re working on rebooting our port so we’re in a good position to help build it out and do any refactoring to help create a clear layering. Having a clear porting layer, especially one with tests, is something we’re hoping will be beneficial to all the ports.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:webkit-dev-bounces@lists.webkit.org" class="">webkit-dev-bounces@lists.webkit.org</a> [<a href="mailto:webkit-dev-bounces@lists.webkit.org" class="">mailto:webkit-dev-bounces@lists.webkit.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Maciej Stachowiak<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, January 11, 2017 2:05 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Antti Koivisto <<a href="mailto:koivisto@iki.fi" class="">koivisto@iki.fi</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Webkit Development List <<a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a>>; <a href="mailto:mrobinson@igalia.com" class="">mrobinson@igalia.com</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [webkit-dev] WebCore/platform standalone library<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">These both sound right to me. <o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">More generally, I would expect that over time, PAL would likely become a peer project to WebCore instead of being inside it, much the same way WTF started inside JavaScriptCore and eventually moved outside it in the source tree. In the WTF case, it always had a separate top-level namespace.<o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Jan 11, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Antti Koivisto <<a href="mailto:koivisto@iki.fi" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">koivisto@iki.fi</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;" class="">Why is the PAL namespace inside the WebCore namespace? Couldn't it just be a top-level namespace (even if it currently happens to live in the WebCore project)?</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;" class="">#include <pal/Foo.h> would be more consistent with existing headers than <PAL/Foo.h>.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9.5pt;" class=""> antti<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Wed, Jan 11, 2017 at 7:24 AM, Myles C. Maxfield <<a href="mailto:mmaxfield@apple.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mmaxfield@apple.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">After 18 months of no progress, Don Olmstead and I are getting the band back together!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We’ve uploaded a patch to <a href="https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143358" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=143358</a> which incorporates feedback from many different stakeholders (and as such, the direction is a little different than where I was going with this in the beginning).<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">First of all, this isn’t a new project; instead, it’s a new target inside the WebCore project. The target creates a static library which gets linked into WebCore, which means that the enforcement mechanism can’t be done by the linker. Instead, the layering will be enforced by a Python script, triggered as an extra build step, which checks the symbol names inside the .a file as well as #include directives in source code.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We opted for WebCore to include files using “#include <PAL/Foo.h>” instead of just including Foo.h. Similarly, we are putting symbols inside the PAL namespace, which is a child of the WebCore namespace. Therefore, inside WebCore, you use PAL things by specifying “PAL::Foo”.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The first thing to move into PAL is the “crypto” subfolder, which is a good candidate because it’s small, simple, yet also has platform-dependent implementations.<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We would love your feedback on this approach to help make the dream a reality!<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Thanks,<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Myles and Don<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Mar 22, 2015, at 4:40 PM, Gavin Barraclough <<a href="mailto:barraclough@apple.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">barraclough@apple.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Mar 22, 2015, at 4:35 AM, Maciej Stachowiak <<a href="mailto:mjs@apple.com" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mjs@apple.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Web Abstraction Toolbox (it’s hard to tell the difference between wat and WTF sometimes…)</span><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">+1<o:p class=""></o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">webkit-dev mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div></div></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">webkit-dev mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" target="_blank" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a><o:p class=""></o:p></p></blockquote></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">webkit-dev mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>