<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 28, 2014, at 2:57 PM, Geoffrey Garen <<a href="mailto:ggaren@apple.com" class="">ggaren@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Two concerns that came up today:<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">(1) A binary built with Swift today can only run if the client individual has the same version of Xcode installed. (Is this true?)</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Not sure if it's true (I haven't hit this) but I wouldn't be surprised if there are ABI-breaking changes across beta releases, especially regarding the underlying bridging to the Objective-C runtime. I don't know how often that will happen long term.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>I should mention though that LayoutTestRelay will inherently have a dependency on CoreSimulator.framework inside the Xcode.app bundle, so if LTR is built against a particular location, it will have to either be rebuilt or have its rpath adjusted if using the common /Applications/Xcode.app location, regardless of the language.</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">(2) The language and implementation are still changing in breaking ways.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br class=""></div><div>Yep, I concede to this. My only question in response is whether it's valuable to observe those changes in a project like this or even to use a project like this to investigate other points of discussion, like:</div><div><br class=""></div><div>- Is there one Swift coding style? If not, what's ours?</div><div>- What do we need to implement in spite of, or for lack of, a standard library feature?</div><div><br class=""></div><div>Or, just save all that for a rainy day, I suppose.</div><div><br class=""></div><div>David</div><br class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Geoff</div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jul 28, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Sam Weinig <<a href="mailto:weinig@apple.com" class="">weinig@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hi David,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I think it is a bit too early to start using Swift in WebKit, especially since the language is still evolving. Eventually, I think we should start using it, but I’d like for it to settle a bit before we do.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">- Sam</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div class=""><div class="">On Jul 28, 2014, at 12:47 PM, David Farler <<a href="mailto:dfarler@apple.com" class="">dfarler@apple.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite" class=""><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=us-ascii" class=""><div style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello all,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I have the following bug to help build out support for layout tests in the iOS Simulator.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">iOS Simulator LayoutTestRelay</div><div class=""><a href="https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135269" class="">https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=135269</a></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I'd like to include this as a new tool written in Swift.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Why I think it's fine in this case:</div><div class="">- This tool is specific to the iOS and OS X platforms</div><div class="">- Swift is a fully supported, albeit new, language starting in Xcode 6.</div><div class="">- Swift is probably the best way to get Objective-C bridging "for free" in the long term</div><div class="">- Swift supports script-like "immediate mode" with good JIT-compiled performance</div><div class=""><div class="">- The tool's size and scope is sufficiently small with no complex or WebKit-specific dependencies</div></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I understand that its freshness and continual evolution means that we won't reviewer support relative to our C family languages. I would argue that it will be difficult to subjectively tell when the time is "right", that a good way to solve that is to start using the language itself, and take an incremental approach to crafting the Swift story in WebKit. Using it for some simple tools is a good place to start.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">The larger discussion of using Swift in larger AOT-compiled contexts but is probably going to happen in this thread anyway, so let's have it:</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><b class="">What of future use of Swift in WebKit?</b></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Regards,</div><div class="">David Farler</div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">webkit-dev mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" class="">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a><br class=""></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div>_______________________________________________<br class="">webkit-dev mailing list<br class=""><a href="mailto:webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org" class="">webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org</a><br class=""><a href="https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev" class="">https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev</a><br class=""></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></body></html>