[webkit-dev] Deployment of new EWS Non-Unified builder

[Alexey Proskuryakov]

Ross, I didn't mean any disrespect.

I absolutely agree that this issue is not about the project supporting multiple platforms.

What I disagree with is the statement that omitting includes necessary for non-unified build is a mistake, or that it needs to be made visible. Fixing all of these is very time consuming, whether it's done pre- or post-commit. In my mind, it is a logical conclusion that this shouldn't be done at all, neither pre- nor post-commit. The downside is that patches are more likely to break the build, but overall it's less work, because only a small percentage of "missing" includes will ever cause problems. So, ignoring non-unified build saves work over time, and saves the 6 days per month that its maintenance has been costing.

Perhaps that's incorrect, and the cost situation is the opposite? So that ignoring non-unified builds is costlier overall? It is a real cost, in particular because it sometimes requires fixing issues in unfamiliar code, but that cost hasn't been quantified AFAICT.

In other words, the choices are:

With non-unified EWS:
- many patches get rejected for breaking it;
- it's easy for the patch author to add the includes.

Without non-unified EWS, or anyone fixing non-unified build manually:
- a smaller number of patches gets rejected for breaking existing EWS builders;
- it's sometimes harder to fix, because the errors could be in unfamiliar code (although how hard can it be to add an include, on average).

Without non-unified EWS, but someone fixes non-unified build manually:
- an even smaller number of patches gets rejected due to missing includes;
- it's a huge investment on the part of those who keep fixing the non-unified build.

- Alexey

7 сент. 2022 г., в 6:20 PM, Kirsling, Ross via webkit-dev <webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> > написал(а):

This conversation has had some diverging threads (which is what makes mailing list-based communication so difficult), but I'm disappointed that this should mean that the crux of the conversation was lost.

There is no such thing as "not maintaining the non-unified build"; there never has been. We have covered that this is an *inherent* problem in a unified build mechanism and that this would be an issue even if Mac were the only platform. The *singular* question at play is whether contributors have visibility into the repercussions of their mistakenly omitted includes. The proposal is to have a bot to provide this visibility, and Igalia already has one ready to offer. No single platform can provide complete visibility because no single platform compiles everything, but incomplete visibility would still save a huge amount of labor regularly performed by the community.

The fact that this labor can not only be overlooked but outright *defended* is, quite frankly, appalling—it is the most disrespectful behavior I've witnessed in my time contributing to this community.

Ross

Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg> 
--------------------------------
From: Alexey Proskuryakov via webkit-dev <webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> >
Sent: Wednesday, September 7, 2022 5:05:40 PM
To: Michael Catanzaro <mcatanzaro at gnome.org <mailto:mcatanzaro at gnome.org> >
Cc: webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> <webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> >
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Deployment of new EWS Non-Unified builder
 
I can't speak for everyone, but the reason why I haven't been responding was that the discussion went in circles, and didn't address the concerns raised.

There is new evidence showing that maintaining the non-unified build is very hard. We knew that from the start, which is why the plan was to not maintain it. Seems like this newly posted evidence only reinforces the decision.

- Alexey

> 7 сент. 2022 г., в 10:41 AM, Michael Catanzaro via webkit-dev <webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> > написал(а):
> 
> 
> At this point I would just go ahead and create the EWS bot. Even if it's not going to be a default build configuration, we're still wasting a bunch of time and effort to keep it working, and the EWS would help fix that.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> webkit-dev mailing list
> webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev__;!!JmoZiZGBv3RvKRSx!_-YAPcPo_76ayjWZ1XeMQ8GeKGm4GosQLa_S2VyNAFELCChziGVCya-6PVjS2uwD27UxfA_DnSX4FpDUJ7rwqxwrjek$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev__;!!JmoZiZGBv3RvKRSx!_-YAPcPo_76ayjWZ1XeMQ8GeKGm4GosQLa_S2VyNAFELCChziGVCya-6PVjS2uwD27UxfA_DnSX4FpDUJ7rwqxwrjek$>  


_______________________________________________
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev__;!!JmoZiZGBv3RvKRSx!_-YAPcPo_76ayjWZ1XeMQ8GeKGm4GosQLa_S2VyNAFELCChziGVCya-6PVjS2uwD27UxfA_DnSX4FpDUJ7rwqxwrjek$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev__;!!JmoZiZGBv3RvKRSx!_-YAPcPo_76ayjWZ1XeMQ8GeKGm4GosQLa_S2VyNAFELCChziGVCya-6PVjS2uwD27UxfA_DnSX4FpDUJ7rwqxwrjek$>  
_______________________________________________
webkit-dev mailing list
webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org <mailto:webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> 
https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/attachments/20220908/94bc496e/attachment.htm>