[webkit-dev] Position on emerging standard: Declarative Shadow DOM

Fri Feb 19 20:36:12 PST 2021

On Fri, Feb 19, 2021 at 2:38 PM Mason Freed via webkit-dev <
webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> wrote:

> On Thu Feb 18 17:08:18 PST 2021 Ryosuke Niwa via webkit-dev <
> webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org> wrote:
>
> > The latest proposal does solve much of the problems we've identified in
> the
> > past, and it's looking to be a promising direction. Do you have any
> example
> > website or app that you can share with which resulted in the observed 15%
> > improvement in FCP? That would be a very intriguing observation and would
> > substantiate the support for this feature.
>
> Glad to hear you think it's promising! The example is from the AMP team,
> and you can see more detail at the Origin Trial results summary here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QmBKxQLE81PsMzyPCvYhzqRAn4hxz61Jzk0uXJAhaVc/edit
>
>
> > However, as I commented on https://github.com/whatwg/dom/pull/892 and
> have
> > previously stated during the last F2F and other avenues, the currently
> > proposed semantics of getInnerHTML is deeply problematic. We want
> > consistent semantics across different kinds of Web API, and what's being
> > proposed is very much different from what we had discussed what we would
> do
> > for selection.
>
> I just replied to the comment you made yesterday on DOM issue #892. I
> looked
> back at the F2F minutes (
> https://www.w3.org/2020/03/23-components-minutes.html)
> to refresh my memory, and it turns out the current API was actually
> suggested
> (by annevk) at that meeting. I don't see any comments from you about the
> API
> shape there, but perhaps I missed it?
>
> In terms of API shape, can you clarify what you feel is deeply problematic
> about it? I assume you're talking about the need to pass in closed shadow
> roots, to enable them to be serialized. I see that your comment there
> suggests
> the requirement to pass in *all* shadow roots, even open ones. But the
> linked
> comment on selection actually refers to just closed shadow roots also. I'm
> unclear why you would want/need to pass in open shadow roots?
>

I replied in the issues directly so that people outside of the WebKit
community can follow the discussion.

> Also, have people figured out how scoped custom element registries can
> > integrate with this feature in the future? Given that's the other most
> > frequently requested feature, it would be very regrettable if we later
> > found out some inconsistencies or awkwardness in their integrations.
>
> Yes, I've talked several times to justinfagnani about Scoped Custom Element
> Registries, and he sees no problem integrating with DSD. We'll likely
> just need to add an attribute that opts the shadow root out of using the
> global registry, but that seems straightforward. Do you have any particular
> concerns?
>

How does one specify a declarative shadow root to use a specific custom
element registry?

- R. Niwa

On Thu, Feb 18, 2021 at 3:16 PM Mason Freed <masonfreed at chromium.org> wrote:
>
>> Hello WebKit,
>>
>> I just wanted to send a final heads-up that Chromium is intending to ship
>> the Declarative Shadow DOM feature. We haven't heard much back from WebKit
>> in the last 5 months or so, but in the meantime there has been some good
>> discussion with Mozilla and the broader community. Several more performance
>> investigations have been performed, around the overhead of Shadow DOM
>> generally, and around the potential polyfill alternatives for DSD. You can
>> see a summary of these, plus all of the other changes that we've
>> incorporated, in this comment on the Mozilla Standards Position thread
>> <https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/335#issuecomment-781697858>.
>> These changes are the result of your (and the community's) involvement and
>> feedback, so thanks. At this point, we believe all of the feedback has been
>> addressed.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Mason
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 10:27 AM Mason Freed <masonfreed at chromium.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, thanks! Welcome back!
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 10, 2020 at 3:24 PM Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa at webkit.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the late reply. I've been on a medical leave. I just
>>>> commented on https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/831
>>>>
>>>> - R. Niwa
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 4, 2020 at 4:26 PM Mason Freed <masonfreed at chromium.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Hello WebKit folks,
>>>> >
>>>> > I just wanted to quickly ping this thread to see if there was any
>>>> interest in posting a position on declarative Shadow DOM. My original post
>>>> here didn't gather much feedback. :-)
>>>> >
>>>> > Thanks,
>>>> > Mason
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:11 PM Mason Freed <masonfreed at chromium.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Hello WebKit!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> I would like to request an official WebKit position on the
>>>> Declarative Shadow DOM proposal. There have been some great comments and
>>>> discussion from WebKit folks on the issue thread, but it is a bit unclear
>>>> whether the overall proposal is something WebKit would support. This was
>>>> brought up and discussed, e.g., on the DOM spec PR here:
>>>> https://github.com/whatwg/dom/pull/858#issuecomment-623735890
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Please see below for all of the relevant supporting documents and
>>>> discussions.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Explainer:
>>>> https://github.com/mfreed7/declarative-shadow-dom/blob/master/README.md
>>>> >> WhatWG DOM Issue discussion:
>>>> https://github.com/whatwg/dom/issues/831
>>>> >> HTML Spec PR: https://github.com/whatwg/html/pull/5465
>>>> >> DOM Spec PR: https://github.com/whatwg/dom/pull/858
>>>> >> TAG review: https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/494
>>>> >> Request for Mozilla Position:
>>>> https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/335
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Thanks,
>>>> >> Mason Freed
>>>> >>
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> > webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org
>>>> > https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
>>>>
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