[webkit-dev] Request for comments
Hiitola Kari (Nokia-D/Tampere)
kari.hiitola at nokia.com
Wed Aug 27 07:40:53 PDT 2008
Hi,
Let me continue the discussion as Jonni escaped to have a vacation. I¹m from
the same team as he is. Sorry about the radio silence in between.
I don¹t have much to add to CSS transitions or transforms specifications.
They are very well written, and the functionality seems to be just what is
needed, and that¹s what we are looking at. Our work is currently around
hardware-accelerating the drawing. You must also have felt the pain of
performance in software-only drawing with mobile devices. What plans do you
have in releasing the 3D transforms in the public tree? CSS animations are
lower priority for us (but that doesn¹t of course mean that they couldn¹t be
important to some other part of Nokia, it¹s a big company).
Regarding the accelerometer events, I was only able to find the
iPhoneOrientation, which only has pre-defined orientations around one axis.
We are adding face down and face up orientations, as well as the possibility
to get the 3D rotation angle of the device and raw accelerometer values.
In touch API I¹d like to see the gestures abstracted a bit from their iPhone
origin. Using two fingers can¹t be the criteria for a gesture, because there
might be other mechanisms than a pinch for zooming etc. It would be probably
be wiser to call it manipulation which should be a good name regardless of
the fingers, mouse movements, or buttons used to trigger the event. Also we
have been thinking that it would be good to separate the event registration
for different types of manipulation events. E.g. only registering for
³onrotate² would let you direct the zoom events to the browser to zoom the
whole page. It¹s not mandatory, however, to separate the event object
definitions. Even adding the parameters of drag to the same event could be a
semantically good thing, politically probably a bit difficult.
Just tell us in case you are interested in making a joint proposal to be
standardized.
Best regards,
- Kari Hiitola
On 8/15/08 11:23, "ext Maciej Stachowiak" <mjs at apple.com> wrote:
>
> On Aug 15, 2008, at 12:15 AM, Jonni.Rainisto at nokia.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Yes, we are well aware of WebKit Teams proposals:
>>
>> http://www.nabble.com/Apple's-Proposal-for-CSS-Transformations-p13615345.html
>>
>> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2008Mar/0313.html
>>
>> http://webkit.org/specs/CSSVisualEffects/CSSTransitions.html
>>
>> http://webkit.org/specs/CSSVisualEffects/CSSTransforms.html
>>
>> http://webkit.org/specs/CSSVisualEffects/CSSAnimation.html
>>
>>
>>
>> And animation examples: http://www.the-art-of-web.com/css/css-animation/
>>
>>
>>
>> We also want to make sure that WebKit API's would remain consistent between
>> platforms. And it would be nice to see all those features in the public
>> trunk, and not only in desktop/iPhone WebKit.
>>
>> It is the best interest of all parties, that all manufacturers devices would
>> have the same advanced API set, when there are large number of devices with
>> the same API's deployed in the world, then the web devolopers would be more
>> interested of using the API's, as there is no point for devolopers to make
>> custom web pages for each manufacturers device.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are not trying to make competing API, but rather cooperate and maybe
>> extend the functionality of the possibly missing features that we had in
>> mind, and we are more than happy to talk about the ideas on technical side
>> and make needed modifications.
>
> A great place to start would be an outline of what you think is missing from
> Apple's (now standards-track) proposals. We are eager to have more input.
>
>> Currently there might be some overlapping with our work and Apples work
>> especially on 2.5D/3D transformations as we haven't seen that code in WebKit
>> nightly build yet, or haven't been able to find it ;-)
>
> We are folding more and more of the changes into the public tree. Recently
> Animations and transition events went in, and basic Transitions and Transforms
> were already present. 3D transforms are not yet available in the public WebKit
> tree.
>
>>
>> We have studied iPhone Safari a bit (what a surprise :-D), but maybe I have
>> missed something, does it already support for web developers to receive touch
>> and accelerometer events, like our implementation of JS API's provide?
>
> It has touch and accelerometer events. The documentation should be on ADC. I
> don't know if they are the same as yours, particularly since you have not
> given much detail about your plans.
>
> Regards,
> Maciej
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> regards, Jonni
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: ext Maciej Stachowiak [mailto:mjs at apple.com]
>>> Sent: 14 August, 2008 21:19
>>> To: Rainisto Jonni (Nokia-D/Tampere)
>>> Cc: webkit-dev at lists.webkit.org
>>> Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] Request for comments
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 13, 2008, at 6:37 AM, Jonni.Rainisto at nokia.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I've been following the webkit-dev list for a while now, and I though
>>>> that it might be good time to introduce myself and the project that we
>>>> have been working on with a small team.
>>>>
>>>> First some general high level introduction jargon for managers or such
>>>> ;)...
>>>>
>>>> Motivation:
>>>> Finger-touchable direct manipulation of 2.5D visual objects with
>>>> gestures is the new emerging UI paradigm with personal navigation devices.
>>>> However, the new paradigm has not reached the web yet -- there is no way a
>>>> web developer can embrace the new interaction. In this project we will look
>>>> into bringing finger touch and gestures to the web framework in order to
>>>> accelerate easy web usage with mobile devices, with the goal of mobile
>>>> devices becoming the primary web access method instead of laptops.
>>>>
>>>> This project is about:
>>>>
>>>> * To create innovative web representation platform
>>>> * Multi-touch, accelerometer (rotation, shaking) and haptics based
>>>> interaction mechanisms
>>>> * Enriching the mobile web content with 2.5D graphics with hardware
>>>> accelerated rendering
>>>> * New JavaScript interaction APIs, Haptics CSS extensions
>>>
>>> Have you looked at the WebKit team's proposal for 2.5D graphics and
>>> transitions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://webkit.org/specs/CSSVisualEffects/CSSTransforms.html
>>>
>>> http://webkit.org/specs/CSSVisualEffects/CSSTransitions.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These are now on track to become W3C standards and are already implemented
>>> on iPhone (2D portions only on desktop WebKit currently).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also, have you looked at how touch and accelerometer events work on Safari
>>> on iPhone?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am excited to see contributions from Nokia, but we would want to make
>>> sure that advanced WebKit features remain consistent in API between
>>> platforms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Maciej
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> High Level Architecture: (disclaimer: this is only high level
>>>> architecture and some aspects might change during the project)
>>>>
>>>> <<architecture.jpg>>
>>>>
>>>> What we have already up and running:
>>>> - Prototype implementation OpenGL ES 1.1 accelerated QT-WebKit running
>>>> on ARM based Internet Tablet device (such as N810), reference
>>>> implementations of the draft JS API's are somewhat working (no haptics
>>>> yet tough). JavaScript test pages receives touch gesture DOM and
>>>> accelerometer events quite nicely.
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering if people in this mailing list would be interested to
>>>> look and give feedback/comments to our JS API draft versions and
>>>> general feedback for us to see if this would be beneficial for end
>>>> users. More detailed draft architecture specifications are also
>>>> available upon request.
>>>>
>>>> Our intention is to start contributing our implementation efforts back
>>>> to open source, if WebKit community would be interested to receive it?
>>>> :)
>>>>
>>>> You can also find me in IRC idling 24/7 on #webkit channel with nick:
>>>> Jonni
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Jonni
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/attachments/20080827/4feadce7/attachment.html
More information about the webkit-dev
mailing list