Supporting css ime-mode property
Hi, I'd like to implement CSS ime-mode property, which activates/deactivates input methods, to WebKit. Here is the MDC's document about this property: https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/ime-mode This property is not a part of any public standard, but both of IE and Firefox support this property. Like Safari and Chrome, they are widely used browsers so the ime-mode property is frequently used when one wants to control input methods. So, if WebKit supports this property, it would improve compatibility of web pages and make web developers easier to implement their pages and services. I recently posted a patch to support the ime-mode property for mac (See https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21279), but alexey asked me to discuss at WHATWG mailing list whether we really should implement this property. Before going to WATWG, I'd like to ask opinions from webkit-dev mailing list. In comments of https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21279, I mentioned the motivation and benefits of supporting this property. In sammary, there are pros and cons for supporting the ime-mode property. Pros: - Can provide a suitable input mode of input methods for particular input elements. For instance, one might deactivate the input method on a credit card number form or telephone number form, while might activate th input method on a address form. - Improves page compatibility. As I mentioned in the comment of the issue, there are many pages which uses the ime-mode property, espacially in CJK web pages. Providing the same behavior regardless of what browser the use uses would be helpful both web authors and users. Cons: - Some users not always feel good when the browser controls input methods automatically. - Input validation is still needed even if this property is specified on an input element and the user input are restricted. FYI, discussion on implementing ime-mode property in Firefox is also available at: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=279246. As the MDC document noted, it's not appropriate for excessive use of this property, but, IMHO, supporting this property would be helpful for people who musta take care of input method related stuff. Regards,
On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Kenichi Ishibashi wrote:
I'd like to implement CSS ime-mode property, which activates/deactivates input methods, to WebKit. Here is the MDC's document about this property:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/ime-mode
This property is not a part of any public standard, but both of IE and Firefox support this property. Like Safari and Chrome, they are widely used browsers so the ime-mode property is frequently used when one wants to control input methods. So, if WebKit supports this property, it would improve compatibility of web pages and make web developers easier to implement their pages and services.
I recently posted a patch to support the ime-mode property for mac (See https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21279), but alexey asked me to discuss at WHATWG mailing list whether we really should implement this property. Before going to WATWG, I'd like to ask opinions from webkit-dev mailing list.
CSS properties should be discussed on www-style, not what-wg. Simon
On Oct 4, 2010, at 10:49 PM, Simon Fraser wrote:
On Oct 4, 2010, at 6:59 PM, Kenichi Ishibashi wrote:
I'd like to implement CSS ime-mode property, which activates/deactivates input methods, to WebKit. Here is the MDC's document about this property:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/ime-mode
This property is not a part of any public standard, but both of IE and Firefox support this property. Like Safari and Chrome, they are widely used browsers so the ime-mode property is frequently used when one wants to control input methods. So, if WebKit supports this property, it would improve compatibility of web pages and make web developers easier to implement their pages and services.
I recently posted a patch to support the ime-mode property for mac (See https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21279), but alexey asked me to discuss at WHATWG mailing list whether we really should implement this property. Before going to WATWG, I'd like to ask opinions from webkit-dev mailing list.
CSS properties should be discussed on www-style, not what-wg.
If it helps with WinIE compatibility, I have no real objection to adding the property. I do find it unfortunate that Microsoft implemented this feature as a CSS property though. I think it should have been done as an extension to HTML instead. Turning off CSS shouldn't break the author's IME intent. dave (hyatt@apple.com)
04.10.2010, в 18:59, Kenichi Ishibashi написал(а):
As the MDC document noted, it's not appropriate for excessive use of this property, but, IMHO, supporting this property would be helpful for people who musta take care of input method related stuff.
I still think that this feature would be actively harmful - even native applications that only target one platform often get IME wrong - there is no chance a web app would do it right on all major platforms. Sticking with platform default behavior is best. In the use cases the were discussed in the bug, support for ime-mode would have harmed international savvy behavior. - WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov
I also have a concern on this proposal. The assumption that this property makes on the semantic of the input system of the platform does necessary universally true and it could be potentially harmful. On Mac OS X and iOS, there is no notion of disabling or enabling input method or mode. You can switch between different input modes, or you can request an input mode that is suitable for a particular purpose (e.g. ascii, email address, etc.). I will catch up with the thread and will make more comment. Thanks, - kida On 2010/10/05, at 13:06, Alexey Proskuryakov wrote:
04.10.2010, в 18:59, Kenichi Ishibashi написал(а):
As the MDC document noted, it's not appropriate for excessive use of this property, but, IMHO, supporting this property would be helpful for people who musta take care of input method related stuff.
I still think that this feature would be actively harmful - even native applications that only target one platform often get IME wrong - there is no chance a web app would do it right on all major platforms. Sticking with platform default behavior is best.
In the use cases the were discussed in the bug, support for ime-mode would have harmed international savvy behavior.
- WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov
_______________________________________________ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
I meant "does NOT necessary universally true". The property assumes input mode takes two states, on and off, but on some platforms it can take multiple values. an alternative way of achieving the same thing in more predictive way: http://developer.apple.com/library/ios/#documentation/StringsTextFonts/Conce... - kida On 2010/10/06, at 8:36, Yasuo Kida wrote:
I also have a concern on this proposal. The assumption that this property makes on the semantic of the input system of the platform does necessary universally true and it could be potentially harmful. On Mac OS X and iOS, there is no notion of disabling or enabling input method or mode. You can switch between different input modes, or you can request an input mode that is suitable for a particular purpose (e.g. ascii, email address, etc.).
I will catch up with the thread and will make more comment.
Thanks,
- kida
On 2010/10/05, at 13:06, Alexey Proskuryakov wrote:
04.10.2010, в 18:59, Kenichi Ishibashi написал(а):
As the MDC document noted, it's not appropriate for excessive use of this property, but, IMHO, supporting this property would be helpful for people who musta take care of input method related stuff.
I still think that this feature would be actively harmful - even native applications that only target one platform often get IME wrong - there is no chance a web app would do it right on all major platforms. Sticking with platform default behavior is best.
In the use cases the were discussed in the bug, support for ime-mode would have harmed international savvy behavior.
- WBR, Alexey Proskuryakov
_______________________________________________ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
_______________________________________________ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
Though this property is useful in some situation, it's very confusing regarding to its real purpose. If I understand correctly, this property is mostly used for restricting the input character set of an input box. But an IME is actually only one of many ways can be used by the user to input Unicode characters, so only enabling/disabling the IME actually doesn't solve the underlying problem. If we really want to provide the ability of restricting the input character set, I'd rather suggest to add an attribute to the input element explicitly for this purpose, and make it into the standard. If we just want to provide compatibility to IE, adding "ime-mode" would be ok, but we may want to warn web developers about the limitations and problems of this property explicitly. Regards James Su 2010/10/4 Kenichi Ishibashi <bashi@google.com>
Hi,
I'd like to implement CSS ime-mode property, which activates/deactivates input methods, to WebKit. Here is the MDC's document about this property:
https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/ime-mode
This property is not a part of any public standard, but both of IE and Firefox support this property. Like Safari and Chrome, they are widely used browsers so the ime-mode property is frequently used when one wants to control input methods. So, if WebKit supports this property, it would improve compatibility of web pages and make web developers easier to implement their pages and services.
I recently posted a patch to support the ime-mode property for mac (See https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21279), but alexey asked me to discuss at WHATWG mailing list whether we really should implement this property. Before going to WATWG, I'd like to ask opinions from webkit-dev mailing list.
In comments of https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=21279, I mentioned the motivation and benefits of supporting this property. In sammary, there are pros and cons for supporting the ime-mode property.
Pros: - Can provide a suitable input mode of input methods for particular input elements. For instance, one might deactivate the input method on a credit card number form or telephone number form, while might activate th input method on a address form. - Improves page compatibility. As I mentioned in the comment of the issue, there are many pages which uses the ime-mode property, espacially in CJK web pages. Providing the same behavior regardless of what browser the use uses would be helpful both web authors and users.
Cons: - Some users not always feel good when the browser controls input methods automatically. - Input validation is still needed even if this property is specified on an input element and the user input are restricted.
FYI, discussion on implementing ime-mode property in Firefox is also available at:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=279246.
As the MDC document noted, it's not appropriate for excessive use of this property, but, IMHO, supporting this property would be helpful for people who musta take care of input method related stuff.
Regards, _______________________________________________ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org http://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/webkit-dev
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:18 PM, James Su <james.su@gmail.com> wrote:
Though this property is useful in some situation, it's very confusing regarding to its real purpose. If I understand correctly, this property is mostly used for restricting the input character set of an input box.
Not quite. This property is used to assist users typing in the correct IME mode. For example, when a CJK user types in names, he/she wants to type in characters as supposed to Latin alphabets so the user needs to active IME manually. But websites can assist him/her by enabling IME automatically in such an input element. - Ryosuke
2010/10/5 Ryosuke Niwa <rniwa@webkit.org>
On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 3:18 PM, James Su <james.su@gmail.com> wrote:
Though this property is useful in some situation, it's very confusing regarding to its real purpose. If I understand correctly, this property is mostly used for restricting the input character set of an input box.
Not quite. This property is used to assist users typing in the correct IME mode. For example, when a CJK user types in names, he/she wants to type in characters as supposed to Latin alphabets so the user needs to active IME manually. But websites can assist him/her by enabling IME automatically in such an input element.
The ime-mode property is also very problematic for this purpose: 1. Activating/deactivating the IME is a very special concept only available on Windows, and may not suitable for other platforms. 2. "disabled" makes no sense for this purpose. 3. IMO, it's more like a hint instead of a mandatory restriction. The user should have right to override it. So for this purpose, I still think having an explicit attribute to hint the desired character set of an input element is better than ime-mode solution. So that the UA can decide the proper action for it.
- Ryosuke
participants (7)
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Alexey Proskuryakov
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David Hyatt
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James Su
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Kenichi Ishibashi
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Ryosuke Niwa
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Simon Fraser
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Yasuo Kida